PATRON SAINT PRODUCTIONS, INC. ~ CHAT TRANSCRIPT ~ Patron Saint Productions, Inc. Online Publicity Chat Series Topic: Session #5: Online Discussion Group Postings Guests: Steve O'Keefe, author of Complete Guide to Internet Publicity Date: October 15, 2002 Welcome to the Online Publicity Chat Series. Today's topic is online discussion group postings. Hi Susie. We'll be starting in a few minutes. Hi Alex. Hi valda. We'll be starting in a few moments. Hi ! Hi, again, Susie. Hi Steve--I've crashed-out 3 times--sorry about that! Trying to hang in this time. I'm sorry you're having connection problems, Susie. What kind of computer are you using? iMac--all upgraded browsers etc. but maybe it was the phone line. I'm here ... Hi Linda. We'll be starting in a minute. hello We have no moderator today, so please wait for me to type NEXT before asking your question. Thanks! Okay, let's get started. There are four basic types of online discussion groups: 1. Usenet Newsgroups (about 40,000) 2. Internet Mailing Lists (about 200,000) 3. Web Site Message Boards (perhaps millions of them) 4. Commercial Service Forums (AOL and CompuServe) These groups come in two basic varieties: moderated and unmoderated (wide open). Today, we'll talk about how to find them and how to post to them. Hello Shirley. Hi Steve. Hope all is well for you. I survived both weather events nicely, and completed the move to my new office. Excellent. Valda, you have a question? 2- one is how do I get my name onscreen with my Qs and 2 is can we get transcript of #3? Valda, your name is on everyone's screen except yours. And I'm behind cleaning the transcripts, but I absolutely promise to have transcripts of the first three session online by the next class. : ) I believe you can keep a transcript by clicking into the main chat window, selecting all, copying, and pasting into a text document. In my experience, it won't save the entire chat, so you have to copy and paste periodically as we go, then clean later. It might be easier to wait for me to post clean transcripts. While I'm waiting for a question, let me continue with theory. For moderated discussion groups, you absolutely must have the permission of the moderator to post. For unmoderated groups, fire away. There are supposedly rules that govern behavior in some discussion groups but you can essentially ignore them. The only rule I have is whether the posting fits with the tone and tenor of discussion in the group. If so, post. If not, don't. If someone complains, consult the rules at that time. By Mail Lists, are you referring to the vehicle to send newsletters? Currently send to my list from my website but cumbersome, and technology is not the latest, and my webmaster has recommended sending a different way wherein the "undeliverables & resends" are handled automatically. Is that what you are talking about? I would love to learn what, how where..$ etc. Susie, I will cover newsletters in next week's class. A mailing list can be either a newsletter (e- zine) or a discussion group. Let me give some examples of how to find and post to these groups and perhaps it will become clearer. USENET NEWSGROUPS: The easiest way to locate Usenet groups on any given topic is to go to groups.google.com You can search for groups by keyword. It will show you not only matching groups, but also matching messages in those groups. When you find a group to target, open it up and gauge the level of discussion. Would your posting fit? If so, send it. If not, look for a better match. When you have decided to post to a group, be sure to copy the name of the group into a postings report so you can track your progress. There is a template for a Discussion Group Posting and one for a Postings Report here in the Templates section of this site (in the Resources section). Both are Word docs. Sorry. I must have misunderstood-- thought maybe that's what the Mail List thing was in this week's. Thank you. INTERNET MAILING LISTS: Unlike Usenet Newsgroups, which live online and you go and read them, Internet mailing lists are delivered to your e-mail address, and you read them with your e-mail software. You usually have to "subscribe" or "join" the list to receive messages and to post messages. This is different than a newsletter, because with a mailing list, every subscriber may post messages to all other subscribers. A newsletter is not usually open to messages from subscribers. There are several good places to find open, public mailing lists. My favorite is groups.yahoo.com This is a combination of several older companies, especially eGroups. You search for groups by topic. The descriptions of the groups usually tell you how many members they have and whether they are open or not. Some of these groups are huge, with over 100,000 subscribers. That's One Hundred Thousand! In many cases, the people who subscribe are passionate about the topic. It's a great way to connect with a core target audience. The procedure for posting is usually: subscribe, verify, post, monitor, unsubscribe. These mailing lists can generate an enormous amount of e-mail -- sometimes dozens of messages a day. Two good ways to handle this deluge of e-mail are: 1) Set your subscription options to "daily digest" to cut down to one message a day, and/or 2) set e-mail filters to siphon off incoming e-mail from mailing lists into a separate bulk mail folder, so it doesn't interfere as much with your normal mail. It's also advisable to use a "throw away" e-mail address for postings campaigns, because your postings will be detected by "sniffers," and you'll be put on spam lists as a result. Throw away address? Susie, yes, a throw away address. Most e- mail accounts come with up to five or more screen names. You can use a screen name specifically for a postings campaign then jettison it a month later so that you have room for a new screen name. Is everyone with me on that? It's part of the new strategy of dealing with the spammers. I wondered how that happens....I get spam from some of those! lol I have over a dozen online accounts, and dozens of e-mail addresses. To me, they're like chocolate: I use them to deliver tasty little messages, then throw away the wrapper when I'm done. What are some creative ways you have used (or one can use) internet mailing lists to grow a business. Linda, excellent question. We haven't talked much about what goes inside of those postings -- the chocolate. You can't just post spam messages to these groups and expect results -- unless the results you want are vitriol and hacking. You have to go in and offer to contribute something of value to the group. Usually, the thing you have to contribute is knowledge -- expertise in a certain area. If you work for a box company, you might offer to send a tip sheet on packing Christmas shipments to those who request it. When I promote books, I offer an excerpt from the book. If you have a book on financial management for corporations, a posting offering an excerpt from the book should be welcome in forums dealing with management accounting issues. So before you write a posting, you have to decide what of value you are going to contribute. It could be news, an article, a tip sheet, a graphic, a movie, a soundbite, a contest, a quiz.... The list is fairly endless if you're creative. Last week, Gwendolynn Gawlick filled-in for me here and discussed content syndication. That's why we talk about content before we talk about postings -- so you have some idea of what you can give to the online community in exchange for promotional presence. How do you achieve the goal of offering your expertise in a tip sheet or freebie of some kind, using a throw away address? You want people to find your site. Excellent question again, Susie. You POST with the throwaway address, but to get the freebie, they send mail to a different address. For example, I may post with the account "realnews@bellsouth.net" But in my message, it will say, "to get the excerpt, send mailto:excerpts@bellsouth.net with the subject line "Send Excerpt," and I will reply with a text file." Sniffers usually look for the POSTing address, not any embedded addresses. So neither is your domain though, to bring people there. You invite in the freebie? Susie, I don't use my primary domain at all in Discussion Group Postings. But I might, if attracting people to my web site were a primary goal. For example, I might point them to a URL on my site where they could get the giveaway. But I like it when people *ask* for the freebie because it's easier to capture their contact info. Here are some more content tips for postings: I like a three-paragraph posting: 1) Pitch 2) Credentials 3) Close Say what you're offering, tell why it's good/qualified, then tell them how to get it. A short message is extremely important. Anything lengthy should only be sent upon request. Be clear about file formats and sizes for your freebies, and offer format choices. For example, I always say "I'll send you a text file" or "It's a JPEG image, about 120K." You also offer choices such as "please specify RealMedia or Windows Media." Don't assume your audience can intuit these things, or has the latest equipment to enjoy your giveaways. Keep all commercial triggers out of public postings: no 800 numbers, order numbers, prices, hard sell copy, etc. -- you can append all the promo copy you want to the freebie, though. Creativity and humor go a long way in discussion group postings. And posing a question, and offering a solution, is a good model. Hi Rachel -- I hope you haven't had trouble getting into the chat. No, just late, thanks Steve We are glad to have you, whenever you can make it! Okay, let's talk a little more about posting format. I like a nice, short line length -- 55 characters or less, like the speed limit. Force your lines to break short for easier reading. No non-ASCII characters: no bold, italics, font styles, underlining, large point sizes, etc. Just plain text, folks. It doesn't have to be pretty -- just clever and brief. You just go in and say "Hi I 'm valda and I want to offer you a tipsheet? Absolutely, Valda -- you've got it. I'm a book publicist, so I always start this way: I have permission from Random House to distribute an excerpt from the new book by Russell Banks called "Rule of the Bone." Then I tell them what the excerpt is about and how to get it. Then I get out of the way. If I'm offering fiction, I post to groups devoted to fiction and literature. If I'm offering tax tips, I post to groups on financial planning, taxes, estate management, etc. And I post to groups interested in books, libraries, reading, etc. I can usually find about 40 discussion groups to post to for even an arcane topic. Auto emissions? Yup, did that. Packaging law? Yup, 40 of 'em. And the more specialized the topic and the group, the more intense the response (usually). That's why I like posting to CompuServe. Folks there are serious about their discussion groups. You need to be a member of CompuServe and/or AOL to post to those services. And it's worth it! One third of the online audience comes through AOL. One text for all the groups or a special one for every? Alex, I use the same basic template for all groups. But I will tweak it -- especially the subject line -- on the fly, to more closely fit the tenor of discussion in that group. I recently did a book on cats, And for groups discussing artwork, I focused on the art. For those discussing animal rights, I switched the subject to "New Book Supports Animal Rights" or something like that. So you have a template you're posting to each group? I like that. Have you been flamed? Apologies if you've already answered this. Rachel, yes I use a template and I have it all formatted and proofed and ready to go before I even start looking for groups. When I find a group where it looks like it will fit, I let it fly, document my postings report, and move on. It takes me two afternoons to do a complete postings campaign. About eight hours of work. Then there's follow-up on requests, monitoring the groups for three days, and dousing any flames. Let's quickly talk about flames (complaints) -- it's important. Flames? If I get a complaint, the first thing I do is assess my position. Do NOT respond knee-jerk to flames. Is the group moderated? If so, the complainer should take it up with the moderator who approved the posting. If the group is not moderated, you have as much right to post as anyone else. Was the complaint sent privately to me, or posted publicly to the group? If someone complains privately to me, I ignore it. There are lots of wound-up people out there just looking for a target, and you don't want to step up to the plate and volunteer. Who cares if they complained to you? If they complained publicly, in the group, I will investigate. If I was in the wrong, I apologize publicly. If I was on solid ground, I defend my posting, publicly and vigorously. thanks Steve, gotta go Thank you, Duncan. I'll stay for a few more minutes if folks want to hang in. Thanks for that detail on the flames, Steve. Understand that in any discussion group with 10 people, there's one person that will complain about *anything* you post. I've posted recipes to discussion groups formed for the exchange of recipes, and gotten complaints. You have to develop a thick skin for this work. But when you defend your postings, nine times out of ten, other members in the group will support you. And, in a strange way, the complaints and defenses and supporting messages all attract attention and help you promote. I call that a "controlled burn." There are other documents you can consult concerning your rights. Many groups have charters, and you can consult these if you are challenged. You probably agreed to "Terms of Service" when you got an Internet account, and sometimes these can be helpful and shed light on a situation. There are also local, state, and federal laws governing online communications and these will be called into play if you are sued. You can also be blacklisted, hacked, etc. but I have been posting to online discussion groups for over eight years, often at a pace of four campaigns a week, and I have NEVER been blacklisted, sued, or had my Internet account terminated. Don't be scared -- be prepared. Know your rights, and know when you're wrong (and then apologize). Time for me to go, Steve. Thanks so much. See you next week. Okay, that's a wrap for this week. Thank you all so much for coming. Join us next week, same time, same place, when our topic will be Online Newsletters (e- zines). Thank you very much Steve. This was interesting. I do a lot of my own "giveaway" in my work, (which is in stress-mgmt, so you can imagine...these days) so it is a pleasure to be on the receiving end of yours in PR! Thanks. Thanks much thanks! Steve, thanks so much. I'm sorry I missed the first part, but I enjoyed the end and will join you next week. I appreciate the time you devote to us. Thanks, very interesting... Thank you all. Good evening. Thanks Steve. Are you posting transcripts yet? Rachel, by next week, they'll all be up. I promise! __________________________________________________ ABOUT THE GUEST STEVE O'KEEFE wrote the book on Internet publicity Ð- literally. He is the author of the first book ever written about online publicity, the best-selling "Publicity on the Internet" (Wiley, 1997), an award-winning guide considered the Bible of the industry. That obsolete classic was replaced by Steve's newest book, "Complete Guide to Internet Publicity" (Wiley, 2002) -- his long-awaited magnum opus based on over 1000 campaigns. Steve pioneered many online marketing techniques which are now considered standard practice, including: * Web Site Registration Campaigns * Web Site Linkage Campaigns * E-Mail News Releases * Chat Tours STEVE O'KEEFE's writing has appeared in over 100 publications including The Wall Street Journal, Harper's, Internet World, PR News, Outside, Small Press, Salon, Curio, NetWorth, and HotWired. He is a member of the adjunct faculty at Tulane University where he teaches online publicity and public relations. Steve is Executive Director of Patron Saint Productions, Inc., a publishing consultancy specializing in online marketing strategy, campaigns, and training . __________________________________________________ ABOUT THE BOOK Complete Guide to Internet Publicity: Creating and Launching Successful Online Campaigns by Steve O'Keefe Published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc. (2002, ISBN 0-471-10580-5, 436 pages, softcover, $34.95) Available in most bookstores online and off. "Nobody knows more about making a splash on the Internet than Steve O'Keefe. And no book reveals better how to do it than this one." -- Fraser P. Seitel, Author of "The Principles of Public Relations" "Steve O'Keefe's book is, by far, the most comprehensive Internet publicity book available. It's a tool that any business owner or publicist needs to read to conduct an effective online PR campaign." -- Lorilyn Bailey, CEO, NewsBuzz.com "Complete Guide to Internet Publicity" is the bedrock reference book for designing and implementing online publicity campaigns. The book takes a "how-to" approach, with detailed instructions for planning the campaigns, creating the materials needed, launching the campaigns, dealing with any problems, and measuring the results. The instructions are highlighted with anecdotes culled from hundreds of campaigns conducted by the author and other Internet publicity professionals. Chapters include: 1. The Power of Internet Publicity 2. E-Mail News Releases 3. Online News Rooms 4. Discussion Group Postings 5. Newsletters and Direct Marketing 6. Chat Tours 7. Online Seminars and Workshops 8. Web Site Registration and Linkage 9. Contests and Other Fancy Promotions 10. Syndicating Your Promotions 11. Building an Online Publicity Operation "Complete Guide to Internet Publicity" is a goldmine for those people responsible for online publicity operations, whether as managers, professionals, instructors or students, including such professions as marketing, advertising, web site design & construction, e-commerce, direct marketing, and customer service. The book and companion web site both include templates for all the campaign materials described, and time-saving resources to help locate target audiences online. This book is essential to anyone charged with promoting a product, service, company, person, or web site. Order your copy today. Please join Steve O'Keefe for a free, open chat program about online publicity techniques. Chats are held every Tuesday afternoon from 4-5 p.m. Eastern Time at the Patron Saints Productions web site, http://www.patronsaintpr.com. __________________________________________________ Copyright ©2002 by Patron Saint Productions, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Please request permission before duplicating or distributing this document. For reprint permission, send mailto:permissions@patronsaintpr.com. Thank you. Chat Transcript Page 2 of 11 Copyright © 2002 ~ PATRON SAINT PRODUCTIONS, INC. ~ All Rights Reserved 741 Saint Philip St. #241 ~ New Orleans, LA 70116 U.S.A. ~ http://www.patronsaintpr.com Voice: (504) 586-9517 ~ mailto:info@patronsaintpr.com ~ Fax: (504) 586-9518 Copyright © 2002 ~ PATRON SAINT PRODUCTIONS, INC. ~ All Rights Reserved 741 Saint Philip St. #241 ~ New Orleans, LA 70116 U.S.A. ~ http://www.patronsaintpr.com Voice: (504) 586-9517 ~ mailto:info@patronsaintpr.com ~ Fax: (504) 586-9518